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More Response to the APA

In a recent blog entry, I looked at a media account of the APA's latest materials regarding people with unwanted homosexual feelings.

Here are a few recent items on the Stand to Reason blog that are of interest in this area:

Can Homosexuals Change?

Get to Know a Former Homosexual

Also: What is a general principle to determine what in the Old Law applies to Christians under the New Covenant?  

Again, this is in response to the idea that someone who wants to deal with homosexual feelings in a Biblically appropriate way shouldn’t be told that they can change.  This is not about forcing anyone to stop engaging in homosexual behavior.  If someone wants to live by the Biblical teachings that sex is for marriage and that marriage unites the sexes, then they should know that there is hope for them.

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Episcopalians Have Split Over Calling Sin Sin

Over the last week, there have been three stories of note in the bankrupt Los Angeles Times - which is part of a company that may have been bullied by an allegedly corrupt Democrat Governor - that have covered conflicts in the Episcopal/Anglican church over church teaching and practice when it comes to homosexual behavior.

Once again, we see that everything has to suffer in deference to homosexuality advocacy.

Duke Helfand had the first story on the breakaways.
To gain official recognition, the new province must still get approval from two-thirds of the 38 provincial Anglican leaders who represent 77 million Christians worldwide. If approved, it would be the first such province based on theology, not geography, a dramatic departure from Anglican policy.

"This is a reformational movement," said the Rev. Peter Frank, a spokesman for the Common Cause Partnership, which is spearheading the effort. "We believe that Anglicanism is a beautiful thing. Here in America it got on a track that was taking it farther and farther away from its core beliefs. We're attempting to return to that."
Helfand had a story the next day as well.
The presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church declared Thursday that church members who joined a newly formed conservative denomination "are no longer Episcopalians," even as she predicted that the exodus had largely run its course and would not trigger further large-scale defections.
Jessica Garrison had the third story.
The bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles has announced that church leaders can bless the unions of same-sex couples as a matter of policy.
Oh yes.  I seem to recall that the Scriptural justification for this is found in 1st Illusions 4:69.
The rite endorsed by Bruno also allows the blessing of other relationships, such as those between two senior citizens who do not wish to legally marry because they might lose health insurance or Social Security benefits.
Stand up for your love!  Uh, unless it might cost you something.

The Bible and tradition both teach that 1) sex is for marriage, and; 2) marriage unites the sexes.  Believe me, I have tried to find a way around point one.  You will not find permission in the Bible to engage in sexual activity with someone other than your spouse.  It isn’t there.

So the larger issue here is, is the Bible authoritative or not?  I wouldn’t expect an unchurched person to say yes.  However, a church that has the Bible as Scripture can only deviate from Biblical teaching in this area by:

1. Claiming new divine revelation that supersedes the Bible.
2. Claiming that the portions of the Bible that teach sex is for marriage and that marriage is exclusively something that unites the sexes are not authoritative.  (In that case, what other Biblical teachings are not authoritative?  Love thy neighbor?)
3. Claiming that the Church (universal) and many unchurched people have been wrong for all of this time in concluding that the Bible teaches that sex is for marriage and that marriage is exclusively something that unites the sexes.
4. Claiming that the Bible contains an expired time limit on limiting sex to marriage and limiting marriage to uniting the sexes.

Otherwise, they are simply not even trying to hide the fact that they are allowing the culture to change the church, instead of calling the culture to be changed by the church.  Instead of fighting sin, they are accommodating it for the sake of convenience.

Well guess what?  A lot of the culture is telling me to sleep in and do other things with my time and money instead of attending church and supporting church financially. That would certainly be convenient.

Is it always easy to live the Christian way?  Does God promise to cater to all of our desires?  No.  But part of being devoted to God is doing things His way instead of our own.
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On the Jesus, the Bible, and the Religious Right

Although this blog is primarily political in nature, I make no secrets about being a Christian, and occasionally write about religion and issues involving faith.  If you are a consistent thinker who acts on reason, then it makes sense that your worldview will inform your political philosophy and positions.  How can what one believes about morality, judgment, authority, accountability, our origins, our destiny, our obligations, and human nature not influence their politics?

I am, perhaps, too libertarian to be classified with the Religious Right, but I am sympathetic to the Religious Right in many areas, and I’ve written much about that movement here.

Here are some previous entries that are relevant:

God is Not a Cosmic Bellhop

Hit and Run Bible Mockers

When Bill Maher is Unintentionally Laughable

Is Jesus a Republican?

Exposing the Religious Right

What Motivates the Religious Right?

The Religious Right is a Reaction

The Religious Right on Church and State


Religious Right on Marriage

The Religious Right: Sex is For Marriage

The Religious Right on Homosexual Behavior

The Religious Right on Abortion

The Religious Right on Euthanasia, Stem Cells, and Life

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More Marriage Neutering, Anglican Bashing From the LA Times

Their editorial board goes all-out to shill for marriage neutering in a formal endorsement.
It's the same sentence as in 2000: "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." Yet the issue that will be put before voters Nov. 4 is radically different.
Yeah, this time we’ve already had four judges work to overturn our will as voters and thousands of years of human understanding and practice.
This time, the wording would be used to rescind an existing constitutional right to marry.
Where is this “right” found in the constitution?
We fervently hope that voters, whatever their personal or religious convictions, will shudder at such a step and vote no on Proposition 8.
Well that’s been painfully obvious for a long time now.
The state of [neutering] marriage shifted in May, when the California Supreme Court overturned Proposition 22, the [affirmation of] marriage that voters approved eight years ago, and ruled that marriage was a fundamental right under the state Constitution.
Even if that were true, everyone had access to that “right” before the court ruling.
Proposition 8 seeks to embed wording in the Constitution that would eliminate the fundamental right to…marriage.
Actually, Proposition 8 seeks to restore common sense and self-government.
It's a rare and drastic step, invoking the constitutional-amendment process to strip people of rights.
Oh yes, rare and drastic… you mean like publicly flouting the laws to “wed” a brideless or groomless couple in a deliberate attempt to manipulate the courts to subvert the will of the people?
All the more reason for voters to weigh carefully what would be wrought by this measure.
Proposition 8 won’t hurt anyone, actually.  Any same-sex couple can register as domestic partners and get all of the trappings that California applies to marriage.
In a meeting with The Times' editorial board, supporters argued at length that children are best off when raised by their own biological, married mothers and fathers. Even if that were true -- and there is much room for dispute -- this measure in no way moves society closer to such a traditional picture.
Sure it does.  Without Proposition 8, it will be the official policy and teachings of the state (which runs schools) that there is no difference to the state between a couple with only one of the sexes or a couple with both of the sexes.  Clearly, there is a difference.  One is how we all got here.  One is the only kind of couple that naturally produces new citizens.  One has been the foundation for ordering society through all of history. The same can’t be said for the other.  Without Proposition 8, the state’s default position is that marriage can’t be about children.

But notice that the people in control of the content at the Los Angeles Times can’t even grasp the painfully obvious – that all other things being equal, a child is best off with a mother and a father who are married to each other.
Gay and lesbian couples already are raising their own children and will continue to do so, as will single parents and adoptive and blended families.
Wrong.  Gay and lesbian couples are raising children that they did not bring into this world as a couple.  Either one of them made that child with a prior partner of the opposite sex, or they used at least one third party and medical technology to intentionally bring that child into a situation where there is either a father or a mother missing.
Using the supporters' own reasoning, it would be better for same-sex parents to marry.
Actually, it would be better if people didn’t make babies outside of a stable marriage to a capable, devoted person of the opposite sex in the first place.
Still, there are differences. Some are statutory -- domestic partners must share a residence, while married couples can live separately
Okay, so do you want to extend the legal trappings of marriage to people who never live together?  I bet you aren’t in favor of extending marriage licenses to platonic roommates.  So the conclusion here is that you want the state to issue marriage licenses because two people are engaging in sodomy, which contributes nothing to society, unlike coitus.
-- and others are pragmatic -- studies have found that domestic partners do not receive the same treatment or recognition from hospital staff, employers and the public as spouses do.
Sorry, but neutering marriage licenses for this reason is like burning down a house because there was some termite damage found.  What happens when people still tilt their head when a man claim’s to be another man’s husband?  Will we have to step up school and workplace “sensitively training” laws?

The fact is, California treats domestic partners as spouses.  If there is a problem with someone in a workplace or hospital, it is a problem with that person or the training at that facility.
But it was Ronald M. George, chief justice of the California Supreme Court, who cut through to the essence of the issue in the May 15 opinion he wrote: "[A]ffording same-sex couples only a separate and differently named family relationship will, as a realistic matter, impose appreciable harm on same-sex couples and their children, because denying such couples access to the familiar and highly favored designation of marriage is likely to cast doubt on whether the official family relationship of same-sex couples enjoys dignity equal to that of opposite-sex couples."
You can’t force dignity into a situation.  Marriage carries with it things that existed long before the State of California, and no judge can force those things to magically appear between two men or two women.  It’s like saying that “The sun now rises in the west.”  Well, okay… you can pretend it does.  It does not make it so.
In other words, the very act of denying gay and lesbian couples the right to marry -- traditionally the highest legal and societal recognition of a loving commitment -- by definition relegates them and their relationships to second-class status, separate and not all that equal.
Actually, in most places, through most of history, marriage has not been about “love” – at least not as the paper is using the word.  And there is still no “love test” when you go to get a marriage license.  There never was.  Their arguments continue to be so much slight of hand and shifting definitions and demanding mutually exclusive rights, such as the right to privacy at the same time as a right to public affirmation.

The relationships are not equal - by their very nature.  One contains both sexes and is therefore a microcosm of society.  The other one excludes one of the sexes.  It isn’t the place of the government to slap approval or recognition on “love” between two adults.  The law deals with facts, like whether someone is male or female.
Whites in the South vehemently rejected the 1954 Supreme Court decision to desegregate schools. For that matter, Californians have accused the state Supreme Court of obstructing the people's will on marriage before -- in 1948, when it struck down a ban on interracial marriages.
Again with the false comparison.  Marriage has always, in every religion, in every state, in every country, all through history – been recognized as uniting the sexes – until very recently in a few places.  “Interracial” marriages were banned in a few – not all- states.  There is hardly a comparison.
Fundamental rights are exactly that.
And this is not a fundamental right.  Notice that nobody had to cooperate or give you your fundamental right to free speech when you woke up this morning.  In contrast, with state-licensed marriage, you have to find an eligible, consenting person to agree to marry you, and then you have to go ask the people of California for a license.

Now, marriage licensing has been changed for EVERYONE.  It wasn’t that same-sex couples were given access to marriage licensing – it was that marriage licensing was neutered for everyone so that neither brides or grooms are recognized or honored.  Glad I got a real marriage license.

Then they go on to comment about how homosexuality advocacy is causing problems for Anglicans.
Still, tensions were evident between liberal bishops from North America and conservative ones from the "Global South." The archbishop of Sudan demanded the resignation of Gene Robinson, the openly gay New Hampshire bishop whose ordination in 2003 was the casus belli of the crisis. A female bishop from the United States suggested that "many of our bishops come from places where it is culturally accepted to beat your wife."
You see, wanting your CHRISTIAN church to adhere to clear teachings of the CHRISTIAN Bible is akin to approval of wife-beating, apparently.
The dispute among Anglicans may seem a strictly religious argument, turning on whether biblical prohibitions of homosexuality should be interpreted literally or softened, as scriptural condemnations of divorce have been without much protest from conservatives.
Churches should definitely enforce standards about divorce.  But there is little the church can do other than 1) refusing to perform a marriage when one person should reconcile with their former spouse, or 2) kick out the offending divorcee.  But divorce is a different issue.  The Bible teaches that sex is for marriage, and that marriage unites a man and a woman.  A Christian church should no more “soften” a stance against homosexual behavior than it should on unmarried fornication or adultery.

Then we get this doozy:
In the culture wars, there is no separation of church and state.
Hmmm.  Interesting.  Have they tipped their hand?  My guess is that they will use such thinking to insist that churches should not be able to refuse to perform state-licensed marriages.

Well, there’s another example, like with the UMC, of where homosexuality advocates are trying to get the church to pick and choose which Biblical teachings to follow.  Everyone else is supposed to sacrifice their faith, their intuition, their needs, their traditions on the altar of homosexually-induced orgasms and esteeming the sinner.
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Marriage Neutering Roundup

Here is my analysis of some of the marriage neutering coverage going back to last week.

We got Malia Wollan of the Associated Press reporting on a “gay pride” parade.  I still find it odd that people hold a parade to demonstrate pride that they are turned on by the same sex.

The headline? “Marriage Freedom is Focus of Gay Pride Parade"

“Marriage freedom”?  Forcing someone else to issue you a license against their will is not a matter of freedom.  It’s a matter of coercion.
The Dykes on Bikes tossed bouquets as they led the city's 38th annual gay pride parade down Market Street.
So respectful. So much for the calls for restraint.
In an interview Sunday morning on NBC's "Meet the Press," Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger called the measure "a waste of time."

"I personally believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman," Schwarzenegger said. "But at the same time I think that my, you know, belief, I don't want to force on anyone else."
But you think it is okay that we are forced to neuter marriage licenses?  Gee, thanks Arnold.  You know, I personally believe it is wrong to pirate your movies, but I don't want to force my beliefs on anyone else.
Overseas, gay pride marches in the Bulgarian capital of Sofia and the Czech Republic city of Brno came under attack Saturday by extremists who threw rocks and eggs.
Now that is ridiculous.  Such violence should be punished.  Still, you should see what is happening to Christians in many more parts of the world.
No serious injuries were reported.
Thank God.

Here are some letters printed in the Orange County Register.

Manuel Herrera of Mission Viejo:
Did Rosales wake up and decide "I am and always will be straight"? I doubt it, and there is no reason to think that a homosexual would do that either.
Attraction is different from action.
Finally, Rosales' completely ludicrous argument that now people are going to rush their horses down the aisle is not only ignorant, but insulting. Moreover, there is no likelihood of this happening soon because as far as I know, horses can't give consent.
You apparently aren’t aware of the people who seriously think animal rights and human rights should be synonymous.
Has Rosales met many animal-sexuals lately?
Do you live in a cave?  You can find this on the Internet with little effort.  It’s even been on my basic cable.
It all boils down to this: it is time for everyone, especially the government, to get out of individuals' private lives.
Then why did they get into my voting both?
At the end of the day, nothing about gay marriage will alter Rosales' or any other straight person's life.
Wrong.  Marriage licenses and ceremonies have already been neutered – for EVERYONE.
All it will do is ensure basic human (Yes, homosexuals are human) rights and further equality in our nation.
A state-issued license is not a human right.  This had nothing to do with equality.
And, hopefully, years from now, kids will learn about this time and wonder why this was such a big deal.
Yes, just like abortion "rights" all these years after Roe v. Wade, right?

Anthony Sbardellati of Tustin:
As a gay man, I can testify from first-hand experience that I was born this way.
So what?  People are born all sorts of ways, but we don’t change our laws to cater to their feelings.
And his statement that "same-sex coupling is unnatural and is never an expression of love" reveals a disturbing lack of understanding of human relationships and love.
Oh really?  Explain how.
Two gay men and two lesbian women in a committed relationship is an expression of love, regardless of whether anyone else finds it distasteful.
A state-issued marriage license only enforces the commitment that the person earning more will have to pay the person earning less should there be a divorce.  It can't create or keep love.  You and I have a different definition of love, as well.  It's not loving to encourage someone else into sinful behavior.

Chris Basom of Mission Viejo:
The fact that this issue (an initiative to legally ban gay marriage) is on our ballot (again) poignantly demonstrates the stubbornly oppressive attitudes of fringe Religious organizations.
People who recognize that marriage unites the sexes need not be fringe nor religious.  You want to talk about stubborn oppression – look at the way the activists manipulated the system and forced marriage neutering on the people of California against our will.  Also, the amendment is not to “ban” “gay” marriage.  It is to restore marriage licensing to its pre-neutering state.  This would apply to everyone, gay or straight.  Two people of the same sex could still commit and have ceremonies and live together and all of that – and in California, they could still register and get all of the legal aspects of marriage.
Why not a law against consuming pork? Eating pork is against the religions of many Californians – so why not a law to ban all from doing so?
This is a fundamental confusion on this issue.  First of all, state-issued licenses are issued by the people of California.  If the people of California don’t want those licenses neutered, neutering them is an imposition on the majority.  The analogy would be more accurate if you asked “Why can’t pork be labeled kosher?  Just because some religious people don’t think it is kosher?”  Marriage unites the sexes.  Kosher food does not contain pork.  Kosher dietary laws have never applied to all people at all times.  Meanwhile, every major religion and every society in history has recognized marriage as something uniting the sexes.
Rosales should be mindful that the Bible was used to defend the institution of slavery.
It was wrongly used to defend American slavery.  It was also rightly used to end American slavery.
The Bible was used to defend the laws forbidding interracial marriage.
No major religion has had a consensus on forbidding “interracial” marriage, and the Bible certainly doesn’t forbid it.  Freedom of speech was used to defend slavery and defend laws forbidding interracial marriage, too, so your point is silly.

Dan Johancsik of Huntington Beach:
There are so many things threatening this planet right now that deserve our attention. Why then are the morally righteous so obsessed with trivial matters like gay couples?
We are concerned about judicial tyranny and marriage licensing – not about gay couples (other than my concern that they are injuring each other through their sexual actions, through disease, domestic violence, suicide, and drug use).  If there are so many more important things, why did the activists do this to us?  You’re like an arsonist who sets a fire and then complains about water being wasted by the responding fire department.

Los Angeles Times staff writer Dan Morain had an article on the images the different sides in the Prop 8 fight are using.
Human Rights Campaign, which advocates for gay rights from its base in Washington, D.C., featured on its website a photo of Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin of San Francisco, who have lived together since the Eisenhower administration.
Remember all that complaining that the traditional marriage groups were out-of-state and they shouldn’t interfere in California?  Yeah.

What does it matter how long these two women have been together?  Without a groom, it’s not really marriage, nor should it be licensed as such, and certainly not by judicial activism over an unwilling populace.
In May, the California Supreme Court ruled that denying gays the right to marry violated the Constitution.
Sloppy language AGAIN.  Gays could have married under the law the same as any straights could have.
"There is no question the images helped," Smith said. "They showed gay and lesbian couples are like other couples. They get married, they have children.”
They are NOT just like both-sex couples.  One of the sexes is not represented.  They are a recipe with one ingredient.  And they do not create any children as a couple – none of them do.  Not one of those couples.  I guess Mother Nature is a bigot, right?

Los Angeles Times staff writer Swati Pandey files a report from India on a family member’s wedding for an arranged marriage.

Los Angeles Times staff writer Jessica Garrison talks about a San Diego pastor’s efforts on the issue.
Eight years ago, when an initiative to ban gay marriage was on the California ballot for the first time, Pastor Jim Garlow of the 2,500-member Skyline Church in San Diego County barely mentioned it from his pulpit.
This is such sloppy language.  Again, the initiative was not to “ban” “gay” marriage.  It was to reaffirm existing state licensing of marriage – regardless of sexual orientation.  It did not stop any gay people from getting marriage licenses the same way the rest of us got them, nor did it stop any ceremonies, commitments, or relationships.
The dueling messages of the state's clergy reflect passionate divisions in many faiths about the question.
I defy anyone to show me any authentic traditional religious code or scriptures that portray or encourage marriage for human beings as anything other than something uniting the sexes.  Any clergy performing or advocating counterfeit weddings is doing so in spite of their own scriptures and traditions.
Although pastors cannot urge parishioners from the pulpit to back specific candidates for office, the law does allow advocacy for legislation or initiatives.
So I guess having a Democrat politician stand in the pulpit and lead a rally in church is not endorsing a specific candidate?

Now for some letters to the Los Angeles Times.

Joel Safranek of West Hollywood, which might as well be a suburb of San Francisco:
I suggest that Pastor Jim Garlow tend to the business of his own congregation and his own faith.
That’s what he is doing.  Marriage is a sacred God-initiated institution.

Rev. Libby Tigner of Long Beach, which has a significant “gay” enclave:
Pandey confirms a truth about marriage that eludes Garlow: Values and customs regarding marriage are primarily cultural, not religious, and change over time.
It has always, everywhere, been about uniting the sexes.  Always.  That’s what makes it marriage to begin with.
Just as prejudices against interracial marriage are disappearing, so will biases against same-sex marriage. Fifty years from now, our grandchildren will wonder what all the fuss was about.
Repeating that over and over again will not make it true, but thanks for using the same old tired talking points.

Kenji Yoshino has an opinion piece in the Los Angeles Times that argues that “a constitutional ban would also likely doom the unions already on the books.”

I sure hope so.

Los Angeles Times staff writer Duke Helfand checks in on homosexuality activism’s effects on Christian denominations.
Leaders of the Presbyterian Church (USA) overturned a long-standing ban on the ordination of gays and lesbians Friday, providing yet the latest example of a religious denomination struggling with how, and whether, to incorporate homosexuality into church life.

At the same time, the church's national governing body, meeting in San Jose, refused to alter its definition of marriage, calling it a "covenant between a woman and a man." The actions by the General Assembly came the week after same-sex marriage became legal in California. They also follow the decision of a gathering of Methodists from Southern California and Hawaii, who went against their national church by voting to support same-sex couples who marry and the pastors who welcome them.
These are people who do not care what the Bible clearly teaches.  That’s like a history professor who refuses to use any media describing the past, or a restaurant owner who will not let the chefs use recipes.
Some parishes have left the Episcopal Church, prompting predictions that the issue may tear the denomination apart. In the Presbyterian Church (USA) -- the nation's largest Presbyterian group, with 2.3 million members -- Friday's actions were likely to deepen theological fissures.
Hey – everything must change because a tiny fraction of the population is sexually attracted to the same sex.  We all must bow down and cater to those feelings.
The General Assembly voted in favor of the ordination measure 54% to 46%, but its decision must still be approved by a majority of the nation's 173 regional presbyteries over the next year. Several prominent church leaders predicted it would fail.

Even so, gay rights advocates applauded the Presbyterians' decision to amend their constitution, saying the step would end discrimination that has long kept gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people from church service.
Transgender = someone who dresses like the opposite sex, and sometimes that person has had perfectly healthy body parts removed and had hormones injected in an attempt to aid in their pretending to be the opposite sex.  Why they are always lumped in with gay people, I’m not sure.
"I feel proud of my church today," said Lisa Larges, national coordinator for That All May Freely Serve, an organization that advocates for gay equality in the Presbyterian church.
Is there an organization that does the same for straight fornicators, adulterers, or active alcoholics? 
The measure approved Friday was sponsored by the Presbytery of Boston. It deletes language, approved by the General Assembly in 1996, that requires church elders, deacons and ministers to "live either in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman, or chastity in singleness."
You know – as the Bible prescribes.  I mean, why would a “Christian “ church want to adhere to Biblical commands, after all?

You have to hand it to the homosexuality activists.  They have been very, very effective in changing just about every major institution in our society. Unfortunately, some of those changes have come at a steep cost to the better things in our culture.

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Hit & Run Bible Mockers

Have you noticed that, when someone cites the Bible as an authority or as a source of their moral grounding, you can often count on a “response” in which someone else will simply quote various Bible passages - out of context – that they find to be strange or contrary to their liking?  The person doing this probably thinks they have discredited the Bible, but they usually have just exposed their own ignorance of the Bible.  The tactic is along the lines of discussion-killers such as “Sez you!” or “Shut up!” or sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting repetitive nonsense so that you don’t hear what the other person is saying.  It isn't meant to contribute to the discussion - just to stop it.

It does not necessarily follow that just because this person doesn’t like or understand something in the Bible, that the Bible carries no authority or is untrue.  It definitely doesn’t mean that the original person shouldn’t cite or derive principles from the Bible.

In most cases, the person tossing out these (what they’d call) disagreeable or absurd verses doesn't really want to engage in a serious discussion about the Bible, so discussing the verses they have cited is an exercise in futility.  Even if you showed them that the verses, in context and in their literary form, are not in error or absurd, they’re still not going to accept the Bible as something with authority.  Usually, this is because they know the Bible makes demands of human behavior, and they don’t want to be subjected to these constraints.  In other words, it is not what is hard to understand in the Bible that these people are really concerned with – it’s what is clear and understandable.

We are talking a about a collection of writings that were written in times long since past, by a variety of authors with various backgrounds, writing in ancient languages.  I find some stuff written a mere 200 years ago in English to be strange or hard to understand at first.  (Fortunately, the main things the Bible teaches are also the plain things.)

But then you read things in their context and do a little research into history, culture, linguistics, etc., and things make a whole lot more sense.  Who is writing?  Who is being addressed?  What are the conditions?  What was customary during those times?  Are there other passages that shed light on this one?  Have things since been changed or superseded?

Sometimes someone cites an event in the Bible that they disbelieve simply because it would apparently require the supernatural to be true.  All this proves is that the critic doesn’t believe the supernatural is possible.  They don’t believe there could be a God who can intervene in the universe.

Another common thing for these “hit and run” critics to do is to cite something that happens in the Bible that most people today in our culture would consider to be immoral.  But assuming the thing cited is truly immoral, that does not mean that the Bible approves of the immoral action.  Usually, the Bible also records the negative consequences of immorality.  As stated by many before, the Bible does not approve of all it records.

If they cite actions or commands the Bible credits to God as something they disagree with, they are not proving the Bible wrong or God wrong.  They are proving that they disagree with the God of the Bible.

These types of mockers usually give no reason why we should take them to be an authority as opposed to the Bible (or the God of the Bible), even though that is what they are implicitly asking us to do when they list verses they don’t like or understand.

One of the most recycled and beaten-to-death examples of this type of mocking is the “Letter to Dr. Laura” that these people keep reposting in their blogs and on their websites, usually because they are upset that Dr. Laura believes that sex is for marriage.

A good response to that overused piece of ignorant sarcasm is found here.

Many intelligent, educated, reasonable people have presented good reasons as to why they cite the Bible as an authority, or even believe it is the Word of God, and - shock of all shocks - they've read and even studied all of those passages the mockers think they are so clever in bringing up.  I'm well aware that there are also plenty of intelligent, educated, reasonable people who reject the Bible as an authority, let alone the Word of God, so don't even bother giving me their names.  It doesn't matter what intelligent believe, pro or anti-Bible.  It matters why they believe what they believe.  If they believe something just because they get a warm fuzzy feeling doing so, that doesn't prove their belief to be true.

In all fairness, we no longer live in a society that is Biblically literate and that respects the Bible, and when someone quotes the Bible to make their point, perhaps a better thing to do, instead of simply posting a bunch of verses one finds strange or absurd, would be to ask “Why should we listen to the Bible in the first place?”  But again, that assumes that the mocker really cares and would be willing to read through and sincerely consider an answer.

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